Hi

We have a 16 month old marginated tortoise and I am concerned about it's behaviour and that it might not be happy.

He/She is housed in a good size tortoise table with a 50/50 top soil/sand substrate. There is a heat lamp, a UVB light, several bark hides, a piece of bamboo which makes a tunnel, a water dish and a covered area with hay. The heat lamp and UVB lamp are at opposite ends of the table and she doesn't often walk to the end with the UVB lamp, although we put her food there to encourage her.

We were incorrectly advised by the pet shop to leave the heat lamp on all the time. However, on further reading I realised that as our house is centrally heated there is no need to have to lamp on over night. A few days ago we put the lamp on a timer and it is now on 14 hours a day.

We have been feeding her every other day with mainly romaine lettuce and the odd dandelion leaf sprinkled with a calcium supplement. Twice a week we sprinkle on Nutubal instead.

We have bathed her once a week.

We weighed and measured her after one month. She had grown 5 mm and put on 6g.

She has never been particulary active and spends most of her time sitting or sleeping under the heat lamp. Occassionally she digs herself under the substrate under the bark.

For the last 36 hours she has been hidden 3/4 under the soil, in the covered area, under the hay.

I would appreicate your advice on whether this behaviour is normal and if we are doing everything right.

I also don't know how to identify some of the recommend weeds - plantain and dead nettle.

Many thanks, Harveyham

Hi Harveyham

We have a pair of 2.5 year old Marginated and ours are lively and looking to be fed soon after the lamp comes-on of a morning. They don't often get fed straight away and they tend to have bouts of activity throughout the day till about 17:00/18:00 when they bed-down in a half-buried flower-pot for the night. We do feed most days with Nutrabol and limestone flour added.

Our set-up and basic husbandry sound fairly similar to yours. Differences are that we use a combined UV/heat lamp (mercury vapour)  and don't add hay or bark to any areas on top of soil/sand substrate. Advice given by others elsewhere is that bark can cause some health problems due to mould spores, so we've steered clear.

Do you have fresh water constantly available  in a shallow dish? We use a plant-pot stand and I fairly often see them drinking. They don't always get fully into the water but stand on the edge and stick their heads in. Upping the baths to daily could help if you think dehydration might be a problem.

Ours have never buried themselves for as long as 36 hours - even when in their outdoor run over the summer they've always emerged the following day - and in the indoor table the hardly ever bury. I can't think why yours would dig-in if the temperatures are in the right ball-park.

All I can suggest as a fairly novice keeper myself is to seek the advice of a vet that has some specialism with tortoises if nothing changes soon. But try upping the baths in the short term - this will at least help with hydration.

All the best

Russ

Dear Russ

Thank you very much for replying.

My daughter pulled her out of her hiding place yesteday and placed her under the heat lamp. She put some lettuce near by and she enthusiastically ate it all and then sat under the lamp.

Whenever I check on her she is just sitting there and although there is fresh water in a shallow dish I've only seen her drinking once. I will certainly increase the baths.

We don't have bark chips in the table, just 2 solid pieces which she can climb on or hide under.

I'm worried that the UVB lamp isn't right because of her lack of activity. The pet shop sold it to us so we trusted them that it was correct.

She looks healthy and bright when she is awake with clear eyes and good skin.

We did so much research before we got her and I want her to live a happy and long life.

What sort of outdoor run do you have for them? We have got to construct something for the Summer. Do you provide an enclosed area with a heat lamp for cold summer days?

Thanks

Auriel

Hi Auriel and welcome
It is nice when you can talk to someone that owns the same species as you, helps you to understand the behaviour, and Russ is giving some good advice.
I would just like to say that lettuce is not good to give to any tort, it does not have any nutritional value at all, have a look at this site for help in the dietary needs
http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/site/tortoise_home_1.asp
What are the urates and poo like when when she goes? lovely subjects I know, welcome to the world of tortoises!!!
Why don't you have a read of the fact sheets on the left hand side, they give lots of good information too
Jane

Hi Auriel

Our outdoor run is something I knocked-up. At the risk of breaking a forum rule by mentioning another forum - I recently uploaded some photos of it on the Tortoise Trust `Housing and habitat design' forum - they are at the back-end of the `sticky' thread at the top of the list.

We don't yet have a heated indoor area that they can access themselves, we've simply been moving them to the indoor table overnight and during the cooler months/weather. But that's all about to change as we recently moved house to a bigger garden and I'm already working on a bigger, better run and indoor area.

It could be that your little one is a bit more reclusive, one of ours is less outgoing and varacious than the other, but you do also hear some stories of tortoises that have come through the pet-trade not being in the best of condition. Not trying to scare monger - your store may be an exception. Have you had her long?

Russ

Hi Russ

We've had her since Christmas and the shop was recommended by another Tortoise owner who I visited before we decided to get her. Since my last post I phoned the shop and they have given me a clip so that I can position the UVB lamp so that it shines in the same area as the heat lamp. They advised that because she rarely went to the end of the table where the lamp was, she wasn't getting the benefit. Over the last few days she has been much more alert and has woken in the morning and eaten, basked, then slept and then done the same again.

She is in good shape because her eyes are bright and her skin looks good.

I am relieved to say the least!

I'm going to reply to Jane about the food. We are tying to give her some clover and dandelion leaves as well as romaine lettuce but it's hard at this time of year. What do you feed your tortoises?

Thanks

Auriel

Hi Jane

Thanks for replying to my post. I was so anxious but she appears to be much improved since I've moved the UVB light closer.

We do give her some dandelion leaves and clover every few days so that her diet is varied and plan to increase the variety as Spring arrives.

Her poo is normal as far as I can tell. Dark in colour and about 1.5 cm long. They dry to hard pellets. I think she wees in her bath.

We've started bathing her under the heat lamp and she seems to prefer this so I think she likes the water warm.

I will have another look at the fact sheets. I think she can eat snowdrops, which are out at the moment, but I'll check that. I'm so worried about giving her the wrong weed by mistake because they are not all familiar to me.

Thanks

Harveyham

Hi Jane

I've just checked the website you gave me and I see that snowdrops are definitely not safe! Just thought I would assure you that I've checked before giving her any!

Harveyham

Hi Auriel

Sorry for the delayed reply - I don't visit this forum so often.

We try to feed mostly weeds such as dandelion, vetch, sow thistle. We bought a weed-seed mix and put some of that in the out-door run which keeps us going a bit longer during the winter. We also feed some cultivated plants such as campanula, viola, and pansy, but did still have to resort to supplementing with mixed lettuce in the worst of this winter. What we need to do is get some weed seeds going indoors to see us through next winter.

For the last year or so we've also fed Pre Alpin Testudo Baby (a dried high-fibre product) sprinkled onto their washed weed leaves and this seems to have made a difference to their `output'. Recent published research on wild tortoises has found that they eat large quantities of dry vegetation (because there's not much else available at certain times of the year) and it seems logical to try and replicate what a wild tort would eat as far as we can.    

Russ   

Hi Russ

Good idea about growing some weeds indoors during the winter. We've discovered that Bubbles likes winter jasmine flowers, and the occassional bits of clover but will not eat any purple flowers! She does like campanula leaves so I will definitely keep one going in the house all year.

Thanks

Harveyham

Hi auriel
Romaine lettuce is my marginated tortoises favourite, he has a varied diet, however this is his favourite. I have been a keeper for a long time. Don't be afraid to give romaine!! Xxx