Hi everyone,

We are new to the tortoise world having recently bought our daughter 2 Hermanns (hatched in 2011).  Sheldon and Penny seem quite happy in their table-top enclosure and love to wander freely around the living room - they are facinating creatures to watch!  They seem to eat constantly if provided with the food but I am unsure about how much they should be eating and how many times per day I should replenish their bowl?  They like gem and lambs lettuce, cauliflower and broccoli (unfortunately there are no dandelions at this time of year).  There are so many contradictory websites when it comes to tortoise diets!!! They also seem very active and hungry at night ... is this normal??

Appreciate any advice xxx

Firstly you must never let them waner arorund a house for many reasons, insufficient heat gradient, draughts on the floor, incorrect substrate and inability to thermoregulate, insufficient uvb and the dangers of fluff, hairs etc where they walk.

Feed one a day and not in bowls but scattered, so they have to look for the food and excercise muscles in the process. Dandelions are not the only weeds out there and there are actually plenty for two tiny tortoises (I am presently feeding 15 on wild food alone). Broccoli, cauliflower and other members of the cabbage family must be avoided as they stop calcium  being taken up by the bones. If you absolutely must feed shop bought food then get Florette Crispy Salad as this contains a decen balance until spring returns.

No, it's not natural fo rthem to be active and hungry at night, temps should  drop as in the wild and no night time heat is required at all, so that they dig down into the soil and thermoregulate until the morning. They need to be in open topped accomodation and never in vivariums. it sounds as though you have bought from a pet outlet, which is notorious for giving incorrect advice on tortoises. Have a look here www.tortsmad.com  

Take care

Sue

Firstly you must never let them waner arorund a house for many reasons, insufficient heat gradient, draughts on the floor, incorrect substrate and inability to thermoregulate, insufficient uvb and the dangers of fluff, hairs etc where they walk.

Feed one a day and not in bowls but scattered, so they have to look for the food and excercise muscles in the process. Dandelions are not the only weeds out there and there are actually plenty for two tiny tortoises (I am presently feeding 15 on wild food alone). Broccoli, cauliflower and other members of the cabbage family must be avoided as they stop calcium  being taken up by the bones. If you absolutely must feed shop bought food then get Florette Crispy Salad as this contains a decen balance until spring returns.

No, it's not natural fo rthem to be active and hungry at night, temps should  drop as in the wild and no night time heat is required at all, so that they dig down into the soil and thermoregulate until the morning. They need to be in open topped accomodation and never in vivariums. it sounds as though you have bought from a pet outlet, which is notorious for giving incorrect advice on tortoises. Have a look here www.tortsmad.com  

Take care

Sue

Firstly you must never let them waner arorund a house for many reasons, insufficient heat gradient, draughts on the floor, incorrect substrate and inability to thermoregulate, insufficient uvb and the dangers of fluff, hairs etc where they walk.

Feed one a day and not in bowls but scattered, so they have to look for the food and excercise muscles in the process. Dandelions are not the only weeds out there and there are actually plenty for two tiny tortoises (I am presently feeding 15 on wild food alone). Broccoli, cauliflower and other members of the cabbage family must be avoided as they stop calcium  being taken up by the bones. If you absolutely must feed shop bought food then get Florette Crispy Salad as this contains a decen balance until spring returns.

No, it's not natural fo rthem to be active and hungry at night, temps should  drop as in the wild and no night time heat is required at all, so that they dig down into the soil and thermoregulate until the morning. They need to be in open topped accomodation and never in vivariums. it sounds as though you have bought from a pet outlet, which is notorious for giving incorrect advice on tortoises. Have a look here www.tortsmad.com  

Take care

Sue

Hi Sue

Thanks for the info.  Just to clarify that when they are wandering around the house it's only for about 20 mins to give them variety (in an enclosed room with no windows open) and we watch them constantly - so they are always safe.

They are in an open-topped wooden vivarium with a lidded sleeping area.

The wild food thing scares me slightly incase I poison them! The repitle shop we purchased them from said not to feed them spinach, iceberg lettuce, tomatoes and cucumbers and seemed very concerned for their welfare/set-up before we were allowed to take them home.

Like I said the advice from the internet (even between reputable Tortoise sites) is very contradictory and therefore confusing!!!

I'll cut down on the feeding then, although I am still unsure of the actual quantity they should be eating?  Do you think we should wake them up in the morning and put them under their lamp to try to regulate their sleep patterns .... because I'm sure they would be happy to sleep all day?!

Thanks

Jane

Tortoises really need to have enough variety in their enclosure and do not react well to house conditions for reasons already mentioned. What seems safe to us can be extrememely stressful to a tortoise, especially a pet shop one as these are imported from countries where they will have experienced wild or semi wild conditions. Reputable tortoise sites, do not generally include commercial sites, so if you see these sites offering special offers, a wide range of habitats, accessories etc for sale, they are usually best avoided. There are many who seem convincing to the beginner, making various long term claims etc - it's worth noting that several have been investigated and some have been closed down for dodgy dealing and advice.

The shop you bought them from was obviously a bit more caring than some, but when you are confused re advise given on the net etc, try to think of what they would have in the wild and mimic this as much as possible - ie wild habitat type substrate, food etc and definitely no glass sided habitats which are very stressful and no artificial bedding, pellet food etc.

Sleeping areas are not necessary for most species as it is natural for them to dig into the soil and thermoregulate this way, it also helps with shell growth etc

You can tell if you are feeding enough or too much by doing regular weighing. If your tortoise is gaining weight slowly (a few grams a month) it will be fine, if it is gaining over 10 grams a month (depending on it's size) then you do need to cut down for the sake of the health and longevity of the animal ;)

At this time of year, if they are sleeping all day and not losing weight, they are fine and so long as hydration is maintained, is the next best thing to hibernation.

Hope this helps

Sue

www.tortsmad.com

Thanks yes really helpful.  I have certificates with their barcode numbers stating they were UK bred so am hoping this is true .

My husband built a wooden table after seeking advice from a breeder - so am happy that the substraits are good ... soil/sand, slate for basking and proper bedding (plenty of it for burrowing). 

I will remove the nighttime infared lamp as it make sense for it to be cooler then - hopefully this will slow their evening activities!!

I will have to start weighing them .... They certainly seem to have loved foraging today as you suggested. 

However I now have another question!  The smaller one seems to have grown very amorous today and has been trying (unsuccesfully) to mount the other and squeaking away like a puppy's toy bone (I didn't know torts had a voice?!).  Is this normal for babies?  Am slightly concerned that he might flip himself onto his back as he was going at it quite hard!!

Jane

Barcodes? Not sure what this is. Very often commercial tortoises have the names of the importers and state captive bred, leading people to think they are UK bred. There will be an area on the cert which states 'country of origin' this will show where they originated. How old are they? It's unusual for little ones to mate, but they do make displays of dominance by mounting and butting occasionally, try turning the heat down a little. You need NO heagt overnight at all, it's important for them to cool down dig into the substrate - I would not use sand, it can irritate eyes and is nothing like the the sandy substrate they have in the wild. If they flip, they will tip back providing substrate is not too dry and powdery. Don't have flat, smooth areas under the lamps as this is when it is dangerous to tip up, anywhere else is fine.

Take care

Sue

www.tortsmad.com

The slate area isn't flat its chunky pieces.

They hatched in 2011 (although I don't know which month).  He was trying to bit the other one as well as mounting. I turned the heat down in the room and have removed the nite light and they seem to have headed off to bed happy.

Thanks for the advice.  I haven't dug out the certificates yet but if the country of origin doesn't state UK does this mean they were imported (he said they were UK bred)? If so do I have any recourse of action against them, is it illegal?

It's not illegal to import tortoise, all commercially sold ones are imports or rather 99.9% are. It's just not a nice start in life for them to be dug up in their native countries, shipped over in boxes and stuck inthe pet trade. Therre is no recourse for buying an imported tortoise, but if the seller stated they were UK bred when they were most likely not, then they have committed an offence by telling you this, not many people would do anything about it though as they are then attached to the tortoise and just want to keep it.  A dealer should be able to tell you the name of the breeder if indeed they were UK bred.  If they can only give you another dealers name, then they are imports ;) Often they come in via Germany, so this makes people think they were bred in germany, whereas this is just a stopover. Stress brings out illness in tortoises and many pet shops specimens are overloaded with worms and other parasites. Often they get sick months down the line by which time people do not associate it with anything the pet shop has done. Captive bred tortoises (from breeders) have a much better start in life, are parasite free and do not carry the all too frequent incurable illness such as herpes and crypto that many imports do. It;s mixing these imports with established collections that has wiped out a lot of long term groups of tortoises and the reason that most of us will not add to collections nowadays unless the source is guaranteed. If you just have a hatch date of 2011 then it will be a batch that an importer has sold. They apply for a batch of certs and any cert goes with the next tortoise, no way of knowing the hatch date etc. Breeders will be able to give you an actual hatch date for each tortoise as each one will have been monitored since hatching.

Re the slate, it's not under the lamp is it? Slate is fine for them to feed from, but never under lamps as it gets very hot and can dehydrate your tortoise very quickly, leading to possible bladder stones etc. Only have soil under heat lamps for safety.

Hi

I am also new to the tortoise world having become a mum to two baby Hermanns only a few months ago. Regarding their diet and what they can and can't eat I have found  thetortoisetable.org.uk  a fantastic website if you have not already discovered it.

Hope this helps