Hi
I had a bit of a scare yesterday with Molly when I checked her. I found that some of the shredded paper had poo and some dried urates on them. Not sure how long these were there as they looked quite dried. I took everything out and checked the paper at the bottom and there was no evidence that it was a big wee. I phoned the vet and she said that it was probably ok as it was only a little bit, but to keep a close eye on her. I am so gutted as everything was going so well, now I have that awful feeling of should I take her out anyway, which a big part of me doesn't want to as her weights, fridge temp are so perfect! has anyone had this happen to them, and what did they decide to do?
Thanks
Jane

Hi Jane

They do this to really frighten us don't they?

Poo isn't a problem at all.  This just means that she is expelling anything that was slow to move out of her system; so that is no worry.

Urates is more worrying though.  I am surprised that the surrounding area showed no evidence of a wee as it normally would do.  The general advice is if there has been a wee then you need to wake her up because of the danger of dehydration; so if you are positive she has had a wee then you need to play safe and get her up.  On the other hand your vet didn't seem too concerned as yet; so it is something you will have to decide as to what is best for her.  Remember this is just my thoughts someone else may take a different view.

How long has she had in hibernation to date?

Helen

Hi Helen
Thanks for prompt reply. Molly will be coming up to her 5th week in hibernation (Fridge) this saturday. There was some discoloured paper shreds about 7-8  with a tiny bit of dried urate, and a tiny bit of poo. The paper shreds are placed above and around her. The paper which she sits on shows no signs of any discolouration that would indicate that Molly has wee'd.  I have just checked her box and taken out all the paper but there is nothing there. I am now wondering whether that happened before I put her into her fridge hibernation box and some paper was stuck to her? such a worry, I don't want to panic too soon but I also don't want to put Molly in  any danger either!! How would I know if she is starting to get dehydrated? I am starting to  loose my logic at the moment so all opinions will be gratefully received. Just as an extra her weight loss has been 4gms a wk for 3 wks, 4th wk we are down to 2gms, this puts her weight at 2416 (0.1985)  which is still in a good range but am hoping to see 1gm on the 5th wks IF we get there.
Thanks
Jane

Hi Jane

Personally I should leave her be and check her again on Saturday.  If she has lost a lot of weight I would get her up then.  A large weight loss will be a sign of dehydration. 

5 weeks hibernation is still good for her as she will have had the opportunity for her body clock to switch fully off  and then switch back on again; so it will have been beneficial for her.

Fingers crossed you can leave her for longer.

Helen

Hi Helen
I am thinking that she wee'd just before going into hibernation and what was on the paper was from where I transfered her over, because she definately hasn't wee'd in the her hibination box. She did have a very big weight loss at the start 22gms, but once in the Fridge it has slowed down, plus I wasn't happy with the scales and changed to a digital one's (not while she has been in the fridge). Oh dear, my calm laid back hibernation mode has taken a turn for the worse. I have got everything in place in case she comes out, and just printed off your care sheet "waking from hibernation"
Thanks for your support, gives me a bit more confidence.. I am trying to look at this as a learning curve to give me more experience.
Jane

It looks very much like Molly did wee prior to going in her box Jane - what a relief for you!

The majority of weight lost during hibernation is usually at the beginning and then it settles down as the tortoise enters it's deep slumber; so Molly is doing everything right.

Calm laid back hibernation mode  !!!  That's a new one on me 'cos I'm never calm during this time - the only ones that are calm are the tortoises in my house .

Seriously we all worry no matter how many years of hibernation experience we have.  It does get easier though once you are confident that what you are doing for your tortoise is as safe as you can make it.  The rest is up to the tortoise. 

Helen

Hi Helen

Does that mean that because it was before that is OK? sorry being a bit dim here.. because she never had another bath or drink to replenish that wee, learning alot here. The calm bit I think was trying to convince myself like you say the torts are more relaxed than me. My husband was busy making the new indoor compound for Molly in case we had to take her out, he made quite an impressive job, Molly doesn't know what she is missing....
Thanks
Jane

Hi Jane,

It really depends when it happened and how much fluid she retained when she went into hibernation. If she had just taken water “on-board” and it was a natural progression to replacing the old retained water then it’s absolutely fine. If however she passed water immediately prior to being placed in hibernation, for example - if it was due to the stress of being handled and placed in a box, then her water levels may well be lower than they should be.

HTH

Darren

Hi Darren
Thanks for replying. She definately did not replace the water as I had stopped the baths by then. I did not see alot of wee in the box although I was aware that she had poo'd (prehibernation box), what would you advice that I do? would you just keep a check on her weight or take her out now?

Thanks
Jane

Hi Jane,

You should really get her up to be on the safe side. You won't notice a tortoise dehydrating in hibernation and it can be extremely dangerous.

What a shame as things sound as though they've been going well otherwise.

Darren

Hi Darren
I guessed that was going to be the outcome, I was thinking maybe to do it on Friday when the vets are open just in case there is a problem, do you think that would be better?
Jane

I think Friday would be better Jane. I woke one of mine up last year on a Bank Holiday and I needed a vet for her. Everywhere was closed of course so I won't be making that mistake again.
Helen

Helen

Hi Helen
Thanks, I will wake her on Friday. What is likely to go wrong if anything?
Jane

Hi Jane,

I've hibernated literally dozens of tortoises every year and have thankfully never had a problem to date. Warm her up slowly and bathe her when she's warmed up a bit. Here's the link for waking a tortoise if it helps:-

http://www.tortoise-protection-group.org.uk/site/78.asp

Don't worry - I'm sure everything will be absolutely fine.

TC
Darren

Hi Jane,

Sorry the link didn't work. It should be OK this time

http://www.tortoise-protection-group.org.uk/site/78.asp

Take Care

Darren

Hi Darren
Thanks for info. I have read them so many times over the last 24hrs that I know them off by heart
Thanks for the morale boost though, makes me feel a whole lot better. Fingers crossed for tomorrow and will post to let you know how we are!

Happy New Year to the TPG and all it's members
Jane

Hi Jane, Sorry for just tagging on to your 'panic' at such a late time. Next year try (once Molly has settled) to wrap a dish cloth around her, I do this with all my small ones and it is far easier to gauge if anything has been passed during the weekly weigh ins.

Do you have any of your wine left or has she forced you to buy some more? You worked so hard to get her there but as said on earlier posts at least her system has rested (if not yours). You will be such a professional at the end of all this!

TC

Elaine

Hi Elaine
I will definately use the dish cloth method next year, as I was not expecting this to happen at all, I thought we had passed that. After getting over the disappointment of not a complete successful hibernation, I feel so lucky that I happened to notice that one piece of paper that had some urates on it, which could have proved fatal had I not.Given the little bit of History we had with Molly, it was always touch and go whether I went ahead, it was only her sudden urge of appetite and weight gain that made me decide to go for it. As for the wine, it is a good job I don't drink because since having Keya & Molly I would be very regular customer at the Off Licence !! but I wouldn't have it any other way.
That is one thing that I have embraced out of all of this, is that I have learnt so much about hibernation I feel like I took a crash course over the last 2 days!!
Thanks for everyones help
Jane

Hi Jane,

Please don't let this put you off. Next time will be a piece of cake:-)

TC
Darren

Jane you can read books, online documents but until you actually do the job then you have no idea of just what is in store for you. You are right in the fact that next year you will be far more confident in your abilities. The first year of a new tort is always a stressful one no matter how experience you are. Molly is lucky to have such a vigilant mum, well done!

Elaine

Hi Elaine,

I'm intrigued by the dishcloth idea, as I'm always worried that I will miss signs of a wee, as it could be absorbed by the substrate my tort is in. It sounds a great idea to me, but I was wondering if you think it would work well with horsfields (as you know, they tend to scrabble around for quite a while and take longer to settle than most torts. Would my Doris feel constricted if wrapped in a dishcloth, and could she get tangled up in it if she tries to move about? It might just make her feel snug and secure, but thought I'd check first just in case.

Nina

I've never used this before, but my horsfields move up and down in their boxes and also turn around.  My hermanns seem to stay still.

Helen

Hi Everyone

Well Molly is awake and doing really well. She woke up quite quickly.  I still left her in the box for 1 hr to adjust herself. That was good advice, to let her make her own way to the lamp, because I could see if all her reflexes were working OK, She seems strong in herself and lifts her shell high of the ground. She has had her bath and a good drink. Molly did not wee so I guess there was nothing to wee, which justifies waking her up and keeping her safe. I must admit it was abit of an emotional time and it is lovely to have her back safely. She is still the Molly I knew, stubborn, she is playing the same game with me over food, but I feel confident she  will be eating by the end of the week-end (I am more stubborn than her)
Anyway I can't thank you all enough for helping us over this time, and I learnt so much. We are so lucky to have such a great site with lovely people!!
I guess I do have to say, until the next time, as these torts don't let us get too slack
Kindest Regards
Jane

Hi Jane, thanks for keeping us updated, I'm so pleased she has woke up bright and breezy!!! We will be coming to you for advice next year!! lol

WELL DONE, regards Vivienne

Thanks
Good news though Eh?? Maybe when I have had as many years experience as all of you, I will be eligable to help!!! I still have the stabilizers on  but thanks for the vote of confidence
Jane

Lovely news Jane. I was waiting to hear this. Give Molly a big hug from me.
Helen

Hi,

Glad to hear your news.

I'm always a nervous wreck at the "H" time, no matter how long that you have been doing the "H" word it is still stressful.

I walk the house at night time, I'm irritable, irrational, it's the only time I drink - ever and to top it all of I nearly get divorced. I often say to my other half you just don't understand. However, he is so laid back he is horizontal....

If I go for my blood pressure check at the "H" time my reading is through the roof. Doc then says have you been doing anything different, I say yes it's Hibernation time and I've got 16 tortoises in a fridge and yes your blood pressure would be through the roof.

The only living thing that gets any sleep are the blinking cause of the stress - the torts........ Ha Ha LOL

Hi Just as an extra, Molly has eaten today!!
Jane

That's great, Jane! I'm so glad everything worked out OK in the end (it is scary though when these things happen)!

Nina

They certainly are, but you do feel good when you weather the storm and it turns out a happy ending.

Jane