Hi,
Any ideas. Our much loved Spur Thighed Iberian male has been unwell for nearly 3 years. He has a fairly constant smelly discharge and masses of bacterial can be seen in his urine. Antibiotics have been used in the past, short term results have been acheived but as soon as the antibiotics stop the symptoms return.

We have now had a diagnosis of cryptosporidia. Our vet has prescibed 3 antibiotics, at fairly high doses and all together. Today is the last day of the 14 day treatment. Unfortunately he does not seen to have responded, the symptoms have remained. We are using a quality probiotic but nourishment is not being received from his food leaving low blood protien and sugar levels. We feel he only has a few months left before his quality of life is questionable.

Any thoughts are most welcome.

Hi Doug

I am so very sorry to hear this news and you must be devastated.  I have no experience with cryptosporidia but from what I understand treatment is very problematic.  The 2 drugs I know of that have been used are paramycetin and also halofuginone lactate, but success with therapy is limited in most cases.  Strict hygiene measures need to be in place when caring for animals with this condition to prevent its spread.

It would appear that your vet is on the ball and presumably specialises in exotics too?

Helen

Hi Doug,

Here's a link you might like to read over

http://www.britishcheloniagroup.org.uk/vetscorner/crypto.htm

HTH

Darren

Hi,

Thanks for your responses. I have already seen the BCG report, but thanks. Yes our excellent vet has a specialist interest in Tortoises and has worked in conjunction with a vet scientist who put together the latest antibiotic treatment. The aim, because as you probably realise most information states that cryptosporidia is uncurable, was to reduce the level to sub-clinical. Unfortunately this does not appear to have been acheived.

Yep, absolutely devastated. We are now trying Laco B probiotic (this gives excellent results) to restore gut flora after treatment and in desparation are going to try this long term to try and outcompete the crypto with good bacteria. This is our own idea, unsure if this will work and have never heard of this being used as such before but worth a try?

Regards Doug Keen.

I've had some success in restoring gut flora with Propolis, high potency liquid.  It is rich in bioflavonoids and has an antioxidant effect, which, in some cases, helps maintain (rather than restore) a healthy immune system.

Please let us know if you tortoise responds to the probiotic therapy you've chosen as I am very interested.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you and your tortoise. 

Helen

Hi Doug, fingers crossed that this treatment works. 

Your vet sounds a good one, could you confirm if he/she is on our recommended vet list, if not we could look into adding him.

Regards Vivienne

Hi again,

Must admit I did not even know you had a vets list! I have just checked and can confirm that both our local vet, and the not so local vet scientist are both on your current list. They are both dedicated individuals and, in our view, deserve to be recommended.

Regards - Doug Keen.

Thought you might like a quick update. There was no visible change up to just over one week following the harsh anti-biotic treatment. Then suddenly the discharge stopped, his mood lifted, faeces became more and more digested. Apetite is now very good.We are still to this day carring on with the Lacto B probiotic (on advice) and are unsure if this is the reason for the improvement.

Walking has improved, a steroid injection tried but was inconclusive. Next week we are having more blood test, including to see if the white blood count has gone down (was very elevated to fight the infection). We shall also have test to see if the cryptosporidia have reduced.

Holding our breath....wish us luck, will keep you posted.

Oh Doug, that is great news! I know this tort is not out of the woods yet (and might never be), but this is such an improvement. You must be really pleased, and thanks for keeping us updated. You are one very caring and dedicated owner, and your tortoise was so lucky to have found you.

Nina

Doug, Thank you so much for sharing this experience, it must be very frustrating playing the waiting game of treatments. I am pleased that your vets have the knowledge to help this much loved tortoise and at last your efforts are beginning to look more positive.

LOADS of luck e-mailing its way to you all,

Elaine 

Thanks so  much for the update Doug.  I was wondering what the outcome was.  You must be feeling much happier about him now.  Do let us know the results of his blood tests.  Fingers crossed for continued good progress.

Helen

Hi again,

Charlie our tortoise continues to make excellent progress. Not all good news though, although his last test could not identify any cryptosporidia, the last blood test has suggested some kidney damage. He is now having 4-weekly injections of Nandrolin and will have a further blood test in November. We knew there was a 50% risk of liver or kidney damage with the antibiotic regime, but without any doubt he was going to die anyway. Therefore overall we are very pleased and as we said in himself he seems very happy, he is now piling on weight although our local vet is unsure of hibernation until the kidney situation is better investigated. He has been too sick to hibernate for the last 2 winters anyway. Unfortunately we will never know if the crypto was reduced to sub-clinical levels by the harsh anti-biotic treatment or by continuous Lacto B probiotic to outcomplete them. Hope this is of interest.

Hi Doug,

Fingers crossed for him. I'd definitely be inclined to over-winter him, it's too much of a risk, especially after all the hard work and good progrees.

Please do keep us updated.

Kindest Regards
Darren

Hi Doug

Thanks for keeping us updated on Charlie's health.  It certainly is of great interest to follow his progress.  I am sorry to hear he has suffered some renal problems but at least you still have him and I know that this is more than you first could hope for.  It was certainly worth  giving the lacto B probiotic and this indeed perhaps did aid his receovery in some way.

I agree with Darren's advice on hibernation.  given that he has been so ill this year I think perhps it would be safer to overwinter him this year and see how he gets on over the next 12 months.

Have you a picture of Charlie as I'd really love to see him now?

Helen

Hi all,

Some sad news regarding Charlie. He sadly passed away during hibernation last week. Although we always knew in our hearts that he was terminally ill, it was a surprise to us that he passed away this way. His last blood test confirmed that his liver had recovered the stong antibiotic treatments and was considered normal. The problem with (cryptosoridia) was that although it could be knocked back by antibiotics, it always returned and the effects were to rob him of nourishment, thus slowly killing him. You may be wondering why he was hibernated when the standard advice is never to hibernate a sick tortoise? Well, under vetinary advice we managed to maintain his weight using a rotation of different probiotics and then gave him a course of antibiotics immediately before hibernation, the hibernation was planned to last just 6 weeks and the theory was that the desease would be at a low with this combined approach and, hopefully, retreating it to a sub-clinical level. Unfortunately Charlie only made it to week 4. He seemed fine beforehand and we have weight records going back 25 years which confirmed he was easily up to weight, there were no other clues to suggest that he would not survive. The hibernation process was very controlled and he was checked regularly. We had hoped to get a least one more quality summer.

I'm sure some of you will understand just how very sad we feel.

Hi Doug, Thank you for including us in this very sad illness that Charlie had to cope with. I have learnt a great deal from your endless efforts to maintain Charlie's quality of life. I must admit to having been surprised reading the decision regards hibernation but having been monitored so close by experienced vets I am sure this action was not taken lightly. My thoughts are with you, very sad reading.

Take care

Elaine