Hi
Please help....I really need some advice. We are expecting our very first hatchlings within the next 2 weeks. I was recommended the Mega Ray UVA/UVB lamp and purchased a 120w SB MegaRay....pricey but I want to do this right. We are using a indoor rabbit cage (Casita 120 /height 58cm) as a tortoise table and this would work with the Megaray at a 12inche distance which would give the required temperature of 32 degrees and the UVB. Unfortunately even at 18 inches the temperature is at 34.7 degrees and I cannot raise the lamp any higher, not only is it practical but the light and heat would span too much of the floor space for the hatchlings. I don't know what to do. I think I am going to have to sell the Megaray on and re-think the whole issue...and quickly! I need also a ceramic heater for night. I am wondering if I should go to basics and opt for standard flourescent tube and I wonder if I could get away with the same ceramic heater for day time basking heat? Or perhaps there is another UVA/UVB lamp that is less powerfull which would give 32 degrees at a 12-14 inch distance. Any advice would be welcome.
Many thanks, Nicole

Hi Nicole,
Im not that great with lighting im afraid but i use the Zoo-Med Mercury Vapor lamp which provides both light and heat. What you have sounds similar but maybe the wattage is too high? I use 100w "flood" rather than spot as this will reach the tortoise even if they are hiding in te corner. Can you not change the one you have for one of these? Most good reptile stockists supply them or if you go into our links section you will find "Equipment & Suppliers" click onto "Kimbo's Reptile World". Will the babies be in an outside enclosure or indoors? You will not need any extra heat for them at night at the moment as the evenings are warm, as long as you give them a deep enough substrate to bury down in they will be fine.

Ali

Hi Ali
Thanks for that recommendation. I am sure a lower wattage is going to be the better option, its just a shame I have to spend a fortune in the process of getting it right. What temperature are you getting from your lamp and what height do you have it at? The babies will be in both an indoor enclosure and outside in an enclosure on warmer days. Its just finding the right light for the enclosure we have. We are limited to the height of the lamp as we have an indoor rabbit cage so we could hang the lamp fitting from the top of the cage rather than have any permanent lamp hanging fixture. I will have a look at the Zoo-Med lamp you suggest. Fingers crossed.
Many thanks
Nicole

Hi Nicole,
Do you mean a plastic rabbit cage or a wooden hutch? If its plastic you could take the top off unless you have cats or dogs? My light is about 10-12 inches away from the torts. My temps range from 30-32c in the hot spot and around 22c in the shade.

Ali

Hi Ali
We have the plastic cage with a deep base and bars. I could take the top off but it would mean suspending a bracket from the wall and I really need to have mobility of the cage. It sounds like the 100w powersun that you have is ideal as I have 16inches maximum height so 30-32 degrees at 10-12 inches would be perfect. Many thanks, I will get onto purchasing one of those. Thanks for your help Ali.

You are welcome Nicole, just remember that the best form of UV is natural sunlight so stick them outside even on cooler days so long as its not raining they will be fine, mine were out 5 hours after hatching :-) and are out most days.
Good luck and keep us updated.
Ali

Hi Nicole.  Personally I think the MegaRay is an excellent lamp and think it would be worth seeing if you can organise things a bit differently and keep it.  At this time of year the background temp is much higher than it is in winter.  So in winter you probably would get the right temp at 12" but right now you might need more than 18". Is there any way to hang your lamp above the cage?
It is correct that the MegaRay produces quite a lot of heat and UV especially at close range.  If your hatchlings can escape from the heat and light then it will benefit them to be able to go into and out of the hotspot.

I kept some very small ones for months on quite a small table and I was using a MegaRay.  I was still able to create a very bright and warm area as well as a cooler shadier one.

I really only know anyhting about Hermanns.  If you are keeping them in the (human) house then I don't believe you need any night time heat at all this time of year.  And probably not in winter either unless your house is very cold/draughty.   A ceramic heater isn't that great during the day because the tortoise does not see any light from it and in an open space the heat from them is quite localised.

Hope this helps a bit.

Hi there! Thanks for your tips. I wish I could keep the Megaray but it is really impractical for us to make a permanent hanging fixture because we will probably have to move the table around as it is currently in the conservatory so I am planning on warmer days to have the hatchlings outside and on colder days we may need to temporarily move them to a warmer room. Consequently we opted for the indoor rabbit cage as a good tortoise table option as it would allow us to hang a lamp fitting from the top of the cage thus making it more portable. It is just unfortunate that after speaking with Kimbos I was under the impression that the height of cage and mega ray would be suitable. Never mind, I need to go for a lower wattage I think that should solve my problem. Thanks for your help though, really appreciated it.
Thanks
Nicole

Yes Good Advice Ali, definately planning on having them outside in an outdoor pen as much as possible. Fingers crossed after all this we actually get some hatchlings!
Will keep you informed, thanks for the help.
Nicole

Hi,

Ozric has already said that it it the ambient room temperature which, at this time of year, is causing the lamp to produce higher temperatures. You will find later in the year that the Megaray emits a temperature closer to the agreed preferential temperature of around 32 degrees C at 12-15 inches. However I'd stick with it as long as you are able to produce a temperature gradient withi the enclosure. A tortoise has a preferred body temperature of around 30 degrees C, it will gain this temperature by the quickest means possible. I've measured temperatures of 50 degrees C in tortoise basking spots outdoors before. It simply takes less time for the tortoise to reach its preferred body temperature and it then regulates this by moving in and out of the hot spot as desired. On occasions when the ambient room temperature has caused the indoor hotspot temperature to reach 35 I've found that following an initial warm up directly under the lamp the tortoises will return to the lamp but sit out of the direct, hottest beam but in the vicinity of the heat, thus maintaining their preferred temperature. Megaray state that (with the 100 Watt bulb) the UV equivilant of "light shade" is still output so the tortoise still gains considerable UV at this distance. Andy Highfield of the Tortoise Trust has been doing some interesting research (in the context of the unsuitability of vivaria for tortoises) taking measurements of the temperatures under the heat source and measuring the temperature gradient with both vivaria and tortoise tables. What I found interesting is his comment that anything between 32 and 38 degrees C is acceptable for a hotspot provided that a temperature gradient is available.If the tortoise can warm itself quickly but have a cooler retreat in which to thermoregulate I don't see your temperature of 34.7 being a problem. The tortoise will spend less time basking, will be more active and is less likely to dehydrate (I've found that humidity under MVB lamps is very low).

Andy Highfields initial findings can be found here
http://www.tortoise trustforum. org/viewtopic. php?f=3&t= 1487

Dave.

Hi Nicole

Have you seen the ZooMed lamp stands?  I have one of these, and they are really good, fully adjustable in height, and also reach, and the foot of the stand slides under the base of the tortoise enclosure, so they are very stable.

You can see them here:-

http://www.kimbosreptileworld.co.uk/large-lamp-stand-p-135.html

might be another option rather than buying a new lamp?

HTH

Arlene TPG

Thanks arlene and Dave,
Your experiences are really useful. We did consider the lamp stand but as we are hoping to have a stand which has an open base for the rabbit cage it would not provide the stability required. I have just ordered last night (in a moment of panic!) the Zoomed Powersun as they do a 100W bulb which I think will give a lower temperature than the current Megaray which is 125W. I am sure that perhaps the hotspot was increased due to the 22 degree ambient temperature. I perhaps will keep hold of the megaray and use it in winter when I expect the ambient temperature to drop down to 10-18 degrees, particularly if we keep the hatchlings in the conservatory. Thanks for all your help, its truely invaluable and much appreciated. Hopefully in the next 2 weeks I can report on some healthy hatchlings :o)

If it was me I would hold onto the mega ray because it will be needed in the future when your powersun is used up, or as you say Nicole, in the winter when the extra heat is wanted. 

I found that information from Dave very useful as well.  I'd thought that anyhting over 32C might be harmful but clearly not. 

Yes, I do think you are right. I think I will hang on to it. Just been out today to pick up some pebbles and terracotta pots! Its getting exciting now to think our hatchlings may be with us anytime. Thanks for all your help. Nicole

Hi, you can buy lamp stands (also available from Kimbos) which do not need to be fixes to a wall - the weight of the enclosure or some heavy books keep them sturdy. This might help with keeping the cage mobile and no need for permanant fixings or taking your megaray back. I use one and think its great.

Rachael

Hi Rachael
Thanks for your message. Someone else also suggested this. I may well look into this as my Powersun, despite lower wattage, is not giving any lower temperature. Saying that my two baby torts have not moved away from the heat to the 'cooler end' despite temperatures getting up to 37 in the hot spot. Thanks for the tip though.
Nicole

Just had another thought - what type of thermometer are you using to measure? I once used a liquid crystal one (the type used in aquariums) to measure the temps under the light, and it read much higher than both my glass "normal" thermometer and my digital one. My completely un-scientific theory is that the liquid in it is more sensitive to the high uv output of the bulb - but i could just have a rubbish thermometer! I have also found that the dial type ones are also not reliable. Might be worth checking. Rachael x

Hi Rachael
Yes, these temperatures cannot be relied on...I experienced that one with my incubator temperature! I have two digital probes now and they seem to be very accurate-well they both read the same. The hatchlings (I have 3 now hatched although one still has some egg sac to absorb) but they enjoy the warmer temperatures...they have not gone near the cooler end of the table...so much for getting a big table! Still they are only tiny...it is probably like us being put on a football pitch LOL!

This is an interesting issue that I can shed some light on due to my recent experience in terms of me thinking I had exactly the same problem. If you are using a probe thermometer you need to stand the probe up under the light in order to get an accurate reading and not allow it to touch the substrate. The temp you are looking for is the air temp ( the temp that is hitting the tortoise shell) and NOT the substrate temp as this will get hotter and hotter as it absorbs heat and then re-radiates it. I drove myself mad with this problem. Hope this helps.

Hi,

I am wondering if you can help me. I am just getting my first Hermann and will be using an indoor rabbit cage as we have a cat. I saw that you think I don't need a heat lamp? Do you think I would just need a basking light? I am very confused what to buy?

I would be grateful or any advice.

Thanks

Donna