Just wanted to check your recommendations for smaller tortoises.  As I read it, for a hatchling tortoise the wind-down would be over a two week period, please confirm if that is corect and also if we are speaking of 7 day weeks in this instance? And your recomendation for juveniles is 20 days - when roughly does a tortoise stop being a juvenile?

My other uncertainty is about a small tortoise I have that is still under 35g.  I know you don't recommend hibernation for them under 35g but this tortoise was hibernated before- not last winter as i was too concerned it might not survive, but the previous one when it enjoyed hibernation in very naturalistic conditions for 4 months. This little one doubled in weight over the past year and is now a sturdy looking animal of 30g.  If I decide to hibernate that tortoise do you think a 14 day wind down would be suitable even though its over two years old now? The Hermanni Hermanni tortoises do tend to be smaller than their cousins and the heaviest of my two year olds is 60g.  Thanks. Jonathan

Hi Jonathan,

The wind-down is more related to size rather than age.
There isn't an exact science to predict how long it will take for a tortoise to be ready for hibernation as there are other contributing factors:-
For example the ambient temperature during the initial wind-down will affect the rate at which their metabolism is working/digesting food.
Definitely a full two-week wind-down for hatchling tortoises (14 days). I've hibernated tortoises under 35g here and I know of experienced keepers who do so regularly. A 14 day wind-down should be sufficient for a tortoise this size. There shouldn't be any problem as he/she would have had time to build up sufficient resources to last the winter. Have you any photos at all please?

HTH
Best Regards
Darren

Thanks for those helpful comments Darren.  I have put some pics of this small one (Nabot) in a photobucket album here

http://s250.photobucket.com/albums/gg265/Ozric_01/Nabot%20pics%2010-09/

The last 7 photos I took today and the first few are older ones.  In today's pics he looks a bit lifeless which was probably just me taking him out of the habitat to bring him to the natural light at the window.  He sometimes still just sticks his back legs out straight as in some of these pics but he does use all four legs a lot and is an active tortoise who likes exploring.  When I first got him he did tend to just lie there a lot not even weight-bearing on front legs but that is a lot less now. Thanks for any comments. Sorry I am not good at uploading photos onto this forum. I find it best when looking on photobucket to use the slideshow on fullscreen to get best views.  Jonathan

Absolutely stunning markings Jonathan.

You're very welcome:-)
We could do with some photos of true THH's. Would you mind mailing them to me for loading up onto the website and our Yahoo forum photos section at all please?

Best Regards
Darren

Hi Darren, and thanks for your kind comment! I do love that tiny one but he is a bit of a oddity. He's a very yellow colour and not an even shape at all.  At first I thought that one maybe wouldn't survive but he seems to be thriving now.

I could easily put a wee collection of THH photos in a photobucket album with open access and then (I think) you can take any from there that would be any use.  Please tell me if this would be no good to you.

Can I take it then that you didn't see anything in the photos of the little one that suggest he shouldn't be hibernated?

Jonathan

Thanks Jonathan, I'll certainly give it a go:-)

I can't really tell from the photo whether the little one would be OK to hibernate. If he's had a good year without problems, he is fit and healthy, he's all clear on the hibernation checks and his weight is fine, he should be Ok. Is it fridge hibernation you're going for? as this is definitely more preferable, especially for such a small one.
I checked the temps outside a couple of days ago when I was finishing boxing up and it was still 15deg here.

Yes it will be the fridge for us.  I'm interested in naturalistic hibernation but I don't think there is any chance of the temperature being anywhere near stable and there's a load of hazards out in the garden too. 

On the subject of fridge hibernation, do you agree with the idea that it can be dehydrating and that the tortoise should be placed in a slightly damp substrate to tackle this? I tried to raise the humidity in my fridge last year with a bowl of water and it had no effect at all - alhtough I'd seen this recommended. The water doesn't evaporate because the air at that temperature has no capacity for carrying any more than it has already so this idea cannot work. If the weight loss during hbernation is water and this might be minimised or prevented by using a slightly damp substrate then this might be worth trying?

Hi Jonathan,

We've been pretty lucky here and have never experienced humidity problems, no doubt because it's got two large fans and so the air and moisture is on the move. A humidity of around 50-60% is preferable for Hermanns.
I can understand what you say about the heat (the water doesn't condense as it would if it was warmer). May I ask what humidity is the fridge achieving?
Have you tried a large sponge so it protrudes out of the water dish?
The problem with dampening the substrate is if it is too damp it will affect the shell and most readings taken from a hygrometer with a probe (digital) are usually very inaccurate - so getting the substrate humidity correct can be very difficult. Best to try and get the whole fridge running at the correct humidity and measure it with a more relaible hair hygrometer.


HTH
Darren

Thanks for that Darren.  I haven't set the fridge up for this year yet though I'm about to.  Last year I was only getting about 35% air humidity in the fridge.  The big sponge sounds like a good idea.  I've got a hair hygrometer and I'll get everyting set up over the weekend and see what it says through next week.

Good Luck Jonathan!

It'll be interesting to see what/how much difference it makes

Cheers
Darren

Quick update - I have my fridge running nicely at the right temp and the relative humidity stays between 25 and 30%.  So far water bowls and sponges have made no difference and the water bowl appears to have the same amount of water in it compared to when it went in.

Would welcome any other suggestions for raising fridge humidity.  My fridge is a fairly small one and I don't think there would be any space for an electric humidifier in it.

Hi Jonathan,

If you can't achieve the humidity within the fridge, the only way you're going to achieve the correct humidity is to achieve it within the hibernation box itself. I'd suggest you use a probe hygrometer, check it's running correctly by checking the humidty within the fridge (which you can check with the hair hygrometer) and perhaps hibernate in soil using the probe hygrometer to check the humidity.

Thanks for that suggestion, I'll give that a try. One of my digi thermometers does claim to measure humidity as well as temp.  I assumed it probably wasn't accurate but never thought of using the hair hygrometer to compare.

I nearlt los the plot trying to understand what relative humidity is - but its OK now - I gave up!

Please let us know how you get on?

Cheers

Darren