please help bob is 12 months and i am so worried,he stopped eating and was just sleeping so i thought he was  ready to hibernate?i  followed all the  steps  and he  slept for a week then woke with a  vengeance,but the problem is he hasnt eaten since?i bathe him and he  is very active but wont eat?

Hi, what type of tort is Bob?  When you say you followed all the steps, did you follow the wind down procedure and put him into hibernation?  What method did you use, the box or fridge?

Sorry for all the questions! Regards Vivienne

bob  is a horsefield  and it was the box

And yes followed  the windown etc

Hi,

Oh dear the dreaded horsfield  i also keep these and they are always a nightmare when it comes to trying to wind them down especially with the mild winter temps. I have mine pretty much sussed now and leave them to do their own thing, they live out in the greenhouse all year and they tend to stop eating around mid sept and then dig themselves down in the soil, they do faff about abit and sometimes reappear but then they do settle eventually.  I think if your tortoise is so active you should continue with the warms baths, extra heat and he is eat when he is ready, they can be stubburn when they want. Maybe wait till the weather gets alot colder (dec, jan) and try again but horsfields can be difficult when it comes to the box method as it may not be cold enough for them, a box filled deep with sand/soil might be a better option?

Ali

Thank  you i am so worried xx

LOL, ive kept horsfields for 20 years and the worry of hibernation never goes away, my iberas are easy in comparison. Most of the enquiries/worries on this forum are about horsfields but they are hardy little torts :-)

Ali

Hi there,

I think its important to ensure plenty of daylight stimuation. I'm in the reverse situation of keeping my tortoises active and feeding up until I hibernate them at the end of December. This year I've added Reptisun 2.0 tubes to each setup (in addition to the MVB lamps) and have found them far more active than in previous years.

I also recenty attended a hibernation talk by Mark Rowland, a great reptile vet and he suggested the use of a product called Reptiboost during both the wind down and post hibernatinon periods. This is added to the bathing/drinking water of the tortoise and provides electrolytes and other goodies to the tortoise. He described it as "lucozade for tortoises". It was until recently just used for poorly tortoises but it makes sense to me to send the tortoise into hibernation in the peak of health and the ingredients in Reptiboost should aid your tortoise until it gets its appetite back.

Having said that if the tortoise continues to not eat and starts to loose weight theres no harm in contacting a good tortoise vet for advice and guidance.

Hope he's eating soon, try not to worry, I've kept Hermanns for a number of years but this year have taken on Horsfieds for the first time. As Ai has said they are a law unto themselves!

Hi Dave,

Couldn't agree more. Before we had a greenhouse, we used to use a large converted shed for cooler days. It was always warm enough for them and they basked under the lamps, but is was slightly dull and their activity was far less than it is since using a heated greenhouse. The advantage of a shed is that it can be well insulated in the winter and it's easier to keep warm (so we now have both). Tortoises are far more active in surroundings that are well lit. We've UVB 10.00 tubes at the darker ends of all our tortoise tables, it also gives them extra UVB. In the wild they will benefit from UVB all the time when they are out in the open and not just when they're basking. We've recently obtained a UVB meter from Darren @ Kimbos and it's amazing the amount of UVB emitted by the sum even on dull days.

Hi Darren,

I've had a few discussions with Darren @ Kimbo's and followed some online discussions involving Frances Baines of the UV guide. To this end I now use the Megaray MVB bulb, a halogen flood lamp and the reptisun 2.0 tubes. Theres a growing idea in the hobby that tortoises benefit from the provision of a non UVB basking spot allowing them to thermoregulate without constant high UVB exposure. It is just one train of thought but Darren is now using it.  You do need a bit of space to allow for termperature gradients but interestingly my tortoises "migrate" between the UVB and non UVB basking sport throughout the day. The Reptisun 2.0 is more to fill out the lighting spectrum than to fulfil UV requirements in my setups. Sorry I've hijacked this thread a bit! I'm back!

Back on Horsfields I did read a great paper on their natural annual behaviour patterns which explains a lot of their behaviour at this and other times of the year. You can read it here ,its called

 
http://www.bio.usyd.edu.au/Shinelab/...graphy2003.pdf

Also a book called "The Turtles of Russia and other Ex-Soviet Republics" by Sergius L Kuzmin is worth a look (if you can find a copy!) Its the only book I've found which has various pictures of the Horsfields natural habitat. Its a brutal landscape, all rocks with very little vegetation in most cases. They are tough  little tortoises!

Sorry that link to the Horsfield article has gone a bit doolally. It can be found at

http://www.bio.usyd.edu.au/Shinelab/staff/xavier/ecography2003.pdf

Hi Dave,

Not a problem with the "hijacking" of the thread at all - no need to apologise, always open to informative & interesting ideas

The one thing I would say is that they would naturally move away from the heat lamp anyway, when they have warmed up and do enjoy the light so they would natuarlly sit in a well-lit area after warming up (under the UVB tubes and away from the UVB basking area). Have you purchased one of the UVB meters at all? If not it's worth giving it a try - the results are quite astounding in the garden, even when it's not sunny the UVB is pretty high, this is why I tend to use the tubes for the lighting and UVB (in the juvenile's tortoise tables), to try and replicate the wild - when in the open they would be subjected to UVB all the time. When they move under the non-UVB spot lamp, could it possibly be that the spot lamp is a different temperature from the Megaray lamp and they are merely maintaining their body-temperature rather than looking to warm up?

The reason I ask this is - In our greenhouse (which is situated in the shade of trees, but still bright) there are 6 Megaray lamps (varying strengths) set at different heights, offering different basking temperatures from 30-40deg c. It's interesting, in the morning the larger tortoises (Iberas) sit directly under the 40deg lamp to warm themselves as quickly as possible, then venture outside, it cuts down massively on the basking time and their activity is increased as they warm up quicker. During the course of the day they may move back into the greenhouse & position themselves so's to select the temps they require either to maintain the temps or quickly warm up again. They do this by either sitting to the edge of the hottest lamp or by choosing a cooler lamp. I tried this after speaking with Kevin Eatwell (who orginally recommended 40deg to me), it seems to work very well, though I wouldn't recommend it if they are resticted to the one lamp/one basking temperature, their movement away from the warmest lamp is restricted, or for hatchling or juvenile tortoises that can warm up more quickly anyway. I've also discussed this with Frances who has maintained for sometime that a warmer basking temp (40deg) benefits the tortoises - though again I personally wouldn't use just one lamp from what I've seen here. I tend to find the whole UVB/basking temps etc subject very interesting and have spoken to Darren at great lengths too and swapped mails with Frances.

Would be interested in seeing photos of your set-ups sometime please Dave. I'm not really one for taking many photos, but will take some this summer and load them up.

Thanks for the link - will have a good read

Cheers

Darren

UVB meter is top of my christmas ist to myself, it will keep me entertained for hours. The novelty has only just worn off of my laser guided thermometer.

I have been asking around a lot this year about how much UVB exposure a tortoise needs to generate enough Vitamin D3, I understand that a tortoise can store D3 and there is also a theory that an access of D3 can be broken down into base components and stored within the tortoises body for reconstitution at a later date. I was wondering whether a tortoise is able to break down and store supplimented D3 in the same way as its very much a fully formed "prodct" rather than a synthesized one. Andy Highfied was of the opinion that the UVB requirement is lower than you might think and that a tortoise cuts of the D3 production process simply by retiring to the shade and that they are never to be found basking in full, mid day sun which is something I've seen in my own tortoise on the rare occasions British Summer replicates the Med!

In regard to my lighting the basking spot temps are similar (40-42C for the Halogen lamp and around 38C for the Megaray, thanks laser guided thermometer!) and like yours they do saunter back to either bask at the edge of the lamps or for a quick burst throughout the day.

I think the arguement is that with no alternative heat source a tortoise is forced to expose itself to UVB whether it feels the need for it or not in order to thermoregulate.

The halogen lamp (which are non UVB emitting of course) was already known to me via a book published this year "Naturalistic keeping and breeding of Hermann's tortoises" by Wolfgang Wegahaupt. A fantastic book. The author uses 150-300 watt halogen lamps to recreate very hot basking spots when his tortoises are unable to bask outdoors. The only artifical UV these tortoises receive is from a high powered solely UV emitting lamp (no heat I believe) which the tortoises have the choice of using.  I've found my own tortoises far more active with a quick warm up routine at relatively high temperatures, at the lower 30's with solely an MVB UV emitting lamp they would spend a lot of time basking and generally lounging about

There is an amazing thread on the Tortoise Trust forum, in the aquatic turtle section, started by an acquaintance of mine, Rom. I think its titled "I said I would build a pond" (Rom is an expert pond builder) but the thread goes of into the realms of UV with such detail with input form people such as Frances Baines. I didnt know UV light bounces for example! Get a cup of tea and read though it, its mind blowing!

I have a coupe of pictures of my indoor Hermanns setup in which you can just about make out the dual basking spots. One is a 6x4 table for the small ones, the other pic show it with the adjoining larger table for the sub adults. I think you could scale down the wattage of the halogens for a smaller setup.

Hi Dave,

It's interesting to know you use the hotter basking area too and with good results. I, like you I would imagine, am a firm believer in setting things up in a manner to let the tortoises make the choices. Our lot here are pretty self-sufficient, they have constant access to the outside, access to the greenhouse & tortoise house. All we have to do is bathe them, clean out their water holes/dishes, colect extra food and put them away at night  

Will search for the link you mentioned.

Cheers

All the Best

Darren

Love the table

Wow, your table is one of the best I have seen, so natural, well done

Vivienne

Thankyou Darren and Vivienne, I really appreciate the comments. Makes all the effort worth while (for the 3 months a year they spend in it  ).

Maybe I'll start a new thread on the thought process behind it, any news on the original posters tortoise please?