Hi everyone.  I've got a couple of juveniles and I thnk I'm doing alright with them.

I am hoping to have a couple of hatclings in spring/summer 2009 and I want to keep them outside not indoors on a table.  What facilities would be best to keep hatchlings warm and safe outside - does this mean getting a greenhouse and heating it?

Suggestions please.Jonathan

Jo has a really nice set up for her juveniles Jonathan.  I know she is having a few PC probs at the moment, but if she sees this she will probably step in and give you more detail.  She uses a cold frame which she has heated and it leads out to a small enclosure. This should work equally as well with hatchlings providing you can keep it warm enough. There are a couple of pictures of it (I think) in the TPG photo gallery and she finds this really successful.

Personally I have a table top indoors which mine use on a night time as I don't need any night time heat indoors and then I have an enclosure set up outside; so after bathtime on a morning I just carry them outside.

Helen

Sounds good, another option might be to get a greenhouse and have a UV+heatlamp in there.  I'd be interested in what coldframe is used that won't let any water at all in.

Having a green house equipped with a Powersun 160W would, in my view, be the best thing to do in the UK.  The inside of the green house can be planted and organised as an open table.

When the weather is fine and the sun shines no need to have the lamp working since the torts can go outside but when the weather is bad they can remain inside the green house.  The tortoises can then enjoy similar conditions to what they would have in natura.   They can live outside earlier in the spring and longer in the autumn.  They can also prepare themselves naturally for hibernation.

When I had graeca from Tunisia, even in the South of France I had such a green house for them.  It means the torts do not have to handled constantly to go in and out.  A big plus for them as they stress so easily  

Hi Tangerine

I do have several different type of set ups and I use a large greenhouse for my leopard tortoises and a smaller one for a trio of adult Russians.  I have a heated bedroom area in both greenhouses, but set up differently for their different needs. 

For the Russian bedroom I just use a greenhouse tubular heater running along the back wall of the inside of the bedroom and it works a treat.  I have it attached to a thermostat, but no light in there.  In the outer greenhouse area I have a UVB lamp and the tortoises have access to outside.  It does work very well, but because of our cooler spring and autumn weather the bedroom are fully insulated and have a hatch door which I close at night during the colder evenings.  It can be very expensive to keep the greenhouses heated during the day in Spring and Autumn though unless the greenhouse itself is insulated too.

By the way I must try and get back on to your forum again soon as for some reason it won't let me log in.

Helen

Helen can you tell me what the bedrooms are made from? 

I am interested in a greenhouse but am aware of the huge loss of heat. I think I would try and contain a smaller heated area within the greenhouse in the spring and autumn otherwise it would require massive amounts of energy.  And of course no UV in there except from any UV lamps, due to the glazing.  Although I could glaze it with UVT acrylic.

Could there be problems using a heat/UV lamp inside a greenhouse with overheating given how the weather can constantly change?

This is intersteing about the hatclings.2 experienced keepers on another forum insist that they don't need anythng more than juveniles and that they are better off outside unless the weather is really very cold and wet in which case they come in for one day to warm up they go right back out

The watertight coldframe sounds tempting, then I could put some backup heating in there. If Jo is on can she tell me what coldframe she found that kept the water out?

Jonathan 

Hi Jonathan

Jo has been having some PC problems but I'll give her a ring this evening and ask her it she can get on to come and tell you about her set up.  Hopefully I've attached a couple of pictures.  One of my leopards bedroom in the large greenhouse.  this picture was taken before a door was added.  the other is Jo's coldframe for her small tortoises.

Helen

I'll also ask Geoff what he used for building the greenhouse bedrooms.  I do know that the floor is not directly on the ground - it's a couple of inches higher than the outside lower edge.  It's a double floor with insulation packing beween the floor layers.

Helen

Thanks Helen. That's a serious bedroom that Geoff put together there- I've seen worse carpentry on a dining room table!  And great ideas for me to mull over. 

If I get my babies I'm not going to stick 'em outside in a Scottish summer without major planning for their needs.   Jonathan

Hi Jonathan,

Sorry it's taken me a while to respond, pc problems and a busy life .  My coldframes are both mounted on frames, one is concrete the other is on railway sleepers...........I do find the concrete base more waterproof.  Both coldframes have sealant around both the outside and inside where it sits on the framework.  They are both good quality and find them waterproof, with no leaks <g>, on their own so I haven't had to modify them.  I have two large thick plastic covers I place over them when it's raining, and during the night, to minimise the chances of any water getting in, and to stop the wood swelling. 

I find coldframes ideal for little ones, mine stay out until hibernation time and as I have a light and a tubular heater, ran through a thermostat, they keep the heat very well.  You can insulate the inside of the coldframe with polystyrene tiles fixed to the side, then wood panelling over the top to stop them nibbling at it.

Hope some of this helps.

Jo

Thanks Jo for that information, I have a lot to think about! Jonathan