ive been doing some research on vivs there are alot of people for an against an am sorry to say there isnt a lot to put me off vivs temps ive got are diffrent 85-90 hot end an 75-70 in the cool end they have loads of space about 2x there size of bedding to dig some people are saying vivs are bad because of the glass that it stresses them out what aload off boll*&ks my two come to the sound of my voice an are very happy am just fed up of people saying that vivs are bad yes a little viv of 2ft i can upper stand because of temps but like mine a 4ft one to me there is nothing wrong in my eyes can anyone tell me why my set up is so wrong ?????

I've tested the temps in a 4ft viv and there is no way I could achieve a 10 - 20deg difference between the hot and cool end in a closed unventillated vivarium and it is a well known fact that reptiles cannot perceive glass.

Perhaps you have photos of your set-up and of your tortoises you could share with us?


Regards
Darren

sorry to say darren but you give me no confidence in this site any more then, because i've checked an checked over an over and the temps are 10-20deg difference I think you should check your size of that viv that you have tested because you can gladly come to my house an check for yourself I am in chester. The well known fact that reptiles cannot perceive glass well that maybe but mine don't seem to care about the glass. By the way it's well ventillated, it has three vents at the back of the viv with a usb fan which stays on about 12hours a day. Also we have 1" both sides of the glass doors open so vivs unventillated?? As jim royal would say my ass.
So if any one has a viv as long as it's 4ft or longer dont panic about it your doing a good job. At the end of the day the way I see it is pet shops sell tortoises. My wife wanted one but it's me who has got into it. Tortoises need careing people whether they keep them in VIVS or tables which by the way they shouldnt be in either anyway!!
I am just feed up of people who slate people who have vivs (2ft ones yes i can under stand) but if you can get two different temps it's all good!!! So that's what I think about it all so come on then have a go at me then an say I am wrong about it all then.

That's fine.

Then it may be best, seeing as you have no confidence in this site, to go elsewhere.

Can I just say that before coming on this site I must of went on at least another 10-15 others and this is by far the best one (in my eyes anyway). I think Darren is right, if you are not happy with the answers and advise you are recieving here then bow out gracefully. There's plenty of other sites to choose from.

Apologies if I'm rocking the boat here but I think this site is great. The TPG work hard to help tortie owners, both experienced and new. Please don't spoil it for others.

ben ,your doing a great job

keep it up

Thanks ram .
And thanks darren for your positive feed back on all my posts about vivs!!!
One more thing before I go. Instead of promoting that vivs are bad why not try an encourage people to keep them in bigger vivs with more ventillation etc. People are going to continue to keep tortoises in vivs no matter what and kicking people off the site wont do anything. People like myself can prove that they can get the tempretures right. Ps Darren I find you patronising cheers

Hello Ben,
There has not been any positive feedback regarding vivs from me or any other keeper on this post or your other posts.
Maybe when you gain experience & perhaps try a tortoise table to get first hand experience, you will change your view. I have tested vivs and, as have many of us, seen the damaging effects they have on tortoises. We know lots of people who have swapped from vivs to tables and all have noticed nothing but positive results. Tortoises need to choose their temperature, we should not choose the temperature for them or restict the range of temperatures on offer. The best way to achieve this is to have a completely open area with free air movement (no-one can possibly argue that vivs permit a better air flow)- certainly not without at least trying both out. All of this & more has been covered on the other thread so I don't really want to go over it again.
I hope things go well for you and your tortoises.

BTW Ram, who posted above and commended you for doing a great job, has exactly the same IP address as yourself.

I do sincerely hope you will give it some thought and keep an open mind as I am sure you have the best interests of your tortoises at heart.

Regards
Darren

Ben you sent an email from another address that you set up. that is very funny. Unfortunately,  so is your setup. Have a good day.

It's ok I make vivs an I've just got two orders both for tortoises