Hello... I just joined TPG as yesterday I was given 2 baby Hermanns (?) completely out of the blue... I am totally without 'tortoise' knowledge but I'm combing my way through masses of internet advice! We are in Italy (but English) and although we have roasting summers our winters are snowy and cold so I'm inclined to follow UK advice for housing and rearing(plus my Italian is only bearable!) Firstly, Jack n Jill are weeny things, my 89 year old neighbour handed 5 to me (she said they were a few months old) but I only took two of them !! I think they are Hermanns but as for sex, who knows! I have weighed and measured but its meaningless as they dont exist on the published scale... Any absolute newcomers advice would be gratefully received... thanks.... Maria

Hello there and welcome to the forum.

Wow, you are lucky on so many levels . Handed tortoises by a neighbour and you are living in the home range of the Western Hermanns tortoise! Testudo Hermanni Hermanni are endemic to Italy, I would love to see some photos of your tortoises, it is likely they are of this sub species of Hermanns tortoise. I am lucky to have four myself, they are charming little fellas.

Im tempted to say let your tortoises live as natural a life as possible, the annual climate in Italy is perfect for Hermanns. However a very good care guide to this species can be found under "the tortoise" section on the left. Please ask as many questions as you like and please, some pictures if possible. :)

Dave

Hello Dave... I know I'm so lucky and my 5 year old girl Gabriella is very excited.

However, these guys are soooo tiny , just 23mm and 24mm (carpace length) and they seem to be sleeping for 12 to 14 hours overnight so I hope they're ok. I guess they are babies and will sleep a lot. They wake up in the morning when it's slightly warmer.

I am getting a 'winter' kit together that my husbands bringing over in the car next week. We live in the mountains and these babies were born in Rome ( much warmer) so by the end of Oct we will be down at 10 degs, once the snow arrives even lower than that... but are they too small to hibernate ?

I posted some pics here but plan to get better ones today. I am sure I will need lots of advic so I will be posting frequently!!

Maria

 Hi

They are gorgeous, when we went to Tuscany a few months back, I looked everywhere to see some torts, but couldn't find a trace of one
That is brilliant you being on the site, because theoretically they will be behaving how they do in the wild, and you can post us updates so we can try and follow that pattern as much as possible. Look forward to reading your posts
Jane, Keya & Molly

Hi Marie,

Thankyou for posting the pictures, they're gorgeous. I think they are Testudo Hermanni Hermanni, the Western Hermanns tortoise but a clear picture of their undersides would help confirm this. They are a slightly smaller species than the Eastern Hermanns.

Regarding your question about hibernation, tortoises would naturally hibernate in their first year so age isnt an issue, its whether you are comfortable with the process and above all if they are healthy. There is a weight/ length calculator which will help with this, even for such small tortoises. Their weights can be all over the place at this age though! Ill dig out the link to the calculator.

Here you go....

http://www.tortoise-protection-group.org.uk/site/77.asp

I've taken pics of their undersides, they are identical.
I will try to hibernate them as I believe every day they are slowing down, it's getting cooler every day and though wehave good sunny days, I bring them indoors every evening. If I give a tepid bath in the morning it seems to 'wake them'- perhaps I shouldnt do this if they want to sleep.

On the J Ratio they are both 0.3, quite heavy it seems, perhaps I will stop feeding mid Oct. then allow them to hibernate from end Nov.

Whatever I offer in food, they only seem to eat teeny amounts of iceberg lettuce and rucola flowers!! It's like being a mummy all over again, worrying about these little torts!
Maia

Hi Maria,

From the new photo's they could be T. Hermanni Hermanni but it'll become clearer as they grow. On the diet front, the iceburg lettuce isn't really doing them any good, it lacks any real nutrition and once keyed into it as a food they may be reluctant to try other, healthier things. .

A much better source of food would be weeds and garden plants,  this is a great UK site for advice, guidance and articles on tortoise feeding:

www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/

Can I ask if you are providing any suppliments to the food? Tortoises need Calcium to grow and I add a calcium suppliment to baby tortoises food daily.This is in the form of a calcium powder which you can get online (I use one called calypso cricket dust). Also a multi vitamin suppliment like Nutrobal should be used. I use this 3 times a week in place of the calcium suppliment. Your wild plants may have a pretty high calcium content already but better safe than sorry!

A little on the heavy side is ok for tiny tortoises, a lot of that excess will go towards growth rather than stored as fat as can be the case with older tortoises.

I am sprinkling a little grated cuttlefish over the greens but in fact the Nutrobal is arriving with my husband from the UK (and the table/lamp etc.) around mid October.

Good stuff, calcium is essential to young tortoises.